THE PINE BOWL

I will begin to construct this page without all the notes I have taken from listening to Ken Gypson lecture about it all the Saratoga Auto Museum lost race tracks conferences. It is obvious that the little track hidden out in the woods near Snyders Corners in the Troy, New York region is held very dearly by people in the Empire State racing community because no track has gotten the attention at the lost race track conferences that the Pine Bowl has.

While the Pine Bowl was neither in Vermont it was once promoted by Ed Ryan, who had also run Stateline Speedway for a while. Several drivers who raced there regularly or one several occasions did also appear at various Vermont tracks - Stateline and Fairmont being the most likely. Also, Pine Bowl's close proximity to Vermont gives me more reason to include it in the site.

When time allows, this information will increase. In the meantime, enjoy the visuals.

Courtesy of Ken Gypson

An early feature start at the Pine Bowl. 87 [inside row 2] is Doug Mead; behind him is V2, Don Gardner; Sayles Casey is somewhere in there with the Von Fricken RU21; 13 was id'd as Doug Messena [I think it is Joe Messina]; Don Patten is 95; and George Welch in the Brush Radio 27 is at the rear of the field. [Information from a caption in a Ken Gypson article, Eastern Hot Rodder Magazine]

NESCOT Photo Collection
Al Poole, Athens, NY

Cavalcade Photo Dick Hansen, Red Hook, NY	Pettit Collection Link Pettit, Schenectady, NY	Pettit Collection Link Pettit, with Pinky the Clown	Gypson Collection Sayles Casey, Troy, NY One of the first to drive several legendary cars, including the John Von Vricken RU21. Note that Von Vricken is mentioned in the drivers' roster, too.	Courtesy of Phil Miller Vinnie Becker, Red Hook, NY
AMEX Website Photo Pine Bowl action: The 67 of Burl Jay [now onwed by Ken Gypson] in support class action.	AMEX Website Photo Pine Bowl action: V, Stan Disbrow; 28, Lee Bertrand; and 1,may be Ernie Martin.	AMEX Website Photo Pine Bowl action: 00, Pete Winnie, Schenectady, NY	Photo Source Unknown Whatever class this might have been, it is possibly D.C. Coville - CD's father.	Courtesy of Dan Ody Lee Bertrand, [28] Albany, NY
Courtesy of Dan Ody Jerry Bullinger, [V6] Albany	Courtesy of Dan Ody Joe Wunderlich, [14] West Sand Lake	Courtesy of Dan Ody's 8MM Old Speedways DVD Al Poole, Athens, NY	Courtesy of Dan Ody Car on inside may be Black13, Lee Palmer	Link Pettit Collection Link Pettit, Schenectady The famous Brush Radio 27. Jim Brush also worked as a Pine Bowl Official.

Photo Source - Joe Grossetti

Probably Property of Ken Gypson

Courtesy of Roger Liller Al Poole, from Athens, returns the checkers after a popular win.	Courtesy of Ronnie Caisse Hunt RCH id's this as a Pine Bowl car. I think it's a Hunt family car.	Courtesy of Edward B. Brown III Remember the slurred vooice over the intercom on TV ? "Thish ish Carleton, yer doorman." ? Well, this is Carlton, yer friendly Milk man. The great Carlton Hughes.
Courtesy of Roger Liller Chuck Irving drove the Walt Parks 5 at Pine Bowl.	Ed Ryan Collection Courtesy of Roger Liller Dick Hansen pulls into the pits with his potent Mopar coupe.	Henry Ahlfs Photo Courtesy of Roger Liller If I have this right, this is Doll MacIntyre, a rare female driver in that era.
Irv Conron Photo Courtesy of Bruce Brockett This is Ed Brockett at Whites Beach. Great graphics ! He may well have also run some at Pine Bowl.	Howie Westervelt [and passenger] in what might be an early Wright / Zautner car.	Bob McDowell Photo Courtesy of Roger Liller Catskill's Jerry Townley with what is said to be a car owned by photographer Bob McDowell. Below - Townely being a little rough on the McDowell car.
Courtesy of Roger Liller Joe Messina had a bad day with this Oldsmobile sedan.	Courtesy of Roger Liller Joe Messina must have had a tour in the Connecticut - based Godio 12 - much to the delight of this young fan.	Courtesy of Roger Liller I wonder if McDowell had to take this one, too.

Ken Gypson Collection
A 1954 or 1955 Program. Shows Bob Hickey or Vinnie Becker flipping. Below- It appears to be a shot of the beginning of this mess.

Ken Gypson Collection

CRASH SEQUENCES

Bob McDowell Photo Series Courtesy of Roger Liller
Dick Whell [2] begins to roll, as Mike
Coffie [black car] is sucked into the mess.
Mike Coffie [9] begins to roll, as Dick
Whell is now fully involved and car RR gets by on the inside.

Somebody else squeaks by.
Whell and Coffie continue to entertain the fans.

Dan Ody Photo Series Courtesy of Roger Liller
A car in turn three begins to roll, as cars look for room.
The car takes a high
leap in the roll. I bet those
guys on the bank in the
convertible sports car
have wet pants by now.

The car comes to a rest
as Stan Disbow goes by.
People are now running to the car.
The ambulance didn't exactly over
tax itself did it ?

Photo Series Courtesy of Phil Miller Pawling's Tom McGrath clears as sedan #504 begins a roll.	The car continues to crash as Wynatskill's Pete Peterson gets a closseup view in P33.	Peterson gets by.
		4
Photo Series Courtesy of Phil Miller Ravena's Al Schoonmaker has a front row seat i the 17 as Ernie Palmer of Nassau begins a roll.	Ernie Palmer continues to roll.	A quick look at the under carriage of the Ernie Palmer 148.	The still twirling Palmer is seen at the far right of this final shot.
		5
Photo Series Courtesy of Phil Miller Car 504 [itself a flipper in an above photo] gets by as an unknown coupe begins to roll.	A car gets by on the outside, and the car taking to the inside sends up a cloud of tire smoke as he locks up whatever brakes he has.	The car on the outside has made it by. The car taking to the inside is on two wheels, trying to squeeze through.	Whew ! Squeezed by.

Courtesy of Roger Liller Joe Messina had a turn in Bob Hackel's 77, succeeding Lee Palmer. Until I did this page,. I only knew of Messina with Hudsons and Tremont cars.	Courtesy of John Middleton John Middleton with a good - looking Pine Bowl car.	Courtesy of John Middleton 'Nuther Middleton car.
Joe Messina Photo Collection Courtesy of Roger Liller Lee Palmer.	Palmer Family Photo Collection Courtesy of Cindy Palmer Jolly Ollie, brother of Lee Palmer. Taken in Pine Bowl pits.	Ed Ryan Photo Collection Courtesy of Roger Liller A 1962 lineup with labeling.
Dan Ody Photo Collection Courtesy of Bob Miller Pine Bowl action. 17 could be Al Poole [or maybe there actual was an Al Ostrander.	Judson Family Photo Collection Courtesy of Peter Judson Lou Judson.	Courtesy of Roger Lillder Dick Hansen motors away as who I think is Bob Schreiner climbs the bank.
Dan Ody Photo Collection Courtesy of Bob Miller A car 13 finds itself off the Pine Bowl track.	Dan Ody Photo Collection Courtesy of Bob Miller For some unexplained reason, drivers in that era used to like to pose with their wrecked cars.	South Family Photo Collection Courtesy of Martin South Seemingly, two Pine Bowl photos mixed up. The color one is Stub South. The other shows a wreck that included #7-11, which I have a photo of but cannot find.

The various program pages I have been lucky enough to copy show several names that tell various stories.
IF YOU CLICK ON SOME OF THESE NAMES IT WILL LINK TO THEIR PHOTO

Irv Conron Photo Ernie Martin, Grooms Corners,NY A Whites Beach Champ	Proctor Family Photo George Proctor, Cohoes,NY Over the years, variously listed from Crescent and Waterford as well.	Courtesy of Ken Gypson Jollie Ollie Palmer, Westmere, NY Ollie drove this, plus his own J-O, the #333, and the Fowler 27Jr.	NE Vintage Racing Site Buddy Krebs, Suffield, CT
Courtesy of Ken Gypson Sayles Casey, Troy, NY One of the first to drive several legendary cars, including the John Von Vricken RU21.	Courtesy of Dan Ody Joe Messina, Albany, NY Joe's own car. He also drove a number of cars, including the Green 3 and 1/7 and Tremont 115's.	Hackel Collection Lee Palmer, Albany, NY One of his first cars.	Source Unknown Pete Winnie, Schenectady, NY 00
McDowell Photo Courtesy of Ken Gypson Stan Disbrow, Poughkeepsie,NY	McDowell Photo Courtesy of Ken Gypson Joe Wunderlich, West Sand Lake, NY	McDowell Photo Chuck Irving, New Baltimore, NY	Dick MillsPhoto Gene Bergin, Hartford, CT
Sam Barlow Collection Jack Sleicher, Troy, NY	Courtesy of Dan Ody's 8MM Old Speedways DVD Al Poole, Athens, NY I think this is "Al Schoonmaker".	McDowell Photo Courtesy of Ken Gypson Al Ostrander, Shokan, NY	Courtesy of Ken Gypson Bud Williams, Hudson, NY
Ken Gypson Collection Mike Ehring, Troy, NY	Ken Gypson Collection Clyde Smith, Mt. Tremper, NY	Courtesy of Dan Ody John Knighton	Ken Gypson Collection Burl Jay, NY Also said to be Gordon Film's car.
Ken Gypson Collection Kenny Goodermotte, Averill Park, NY That's Stubby South in the background with S-7	McDowell Photo Courtesy of Phil Miller Bud Williams, Hudson, NY	_{Eastern Hot Rodders Mag via Joe Grossetti} Al Egnert	McDowell Photo Courtesy of Phil Miller Bob Hickey, [11] Kinderhook, NY
Courtesy of Ken Gypson Charlie Yakman, [1] Hudson, NY	McDowell Photo Courtesy of Phil Miller Stub South,	Courtesy of Ken Gypson Henry Akner [Maybe] Poestenkill, NY	McDowell Photo Courtesy of Phil Miller Pete Winnie, Schenectady *105*
Courtesy of Dan Ody Jerry Bullinger, [V6] Albany 14 could be Wunderlich; 4 is likely Ollie Palmer	Courtesy of Dan Ody Car on inside may be Black13, Lee Palmer.

Courtesy of Ken Gypson Sayles Casey, [RU21] Troy, NY	Courtesy of Stuart Brantigan via Sam Barlow Al Ristau, Albany, NY	Link Pettit Collection Ollie Palmer, Westmere, NY Bill Fowler drove the car first, and then handed it over to Palmer.	Ladabouche Collection Pete Peterson Albany, NY One of Pete's cars.
Arnie Ainsworth Photo Stretch Van Steenberg, [38] Saugerties, NY	McDowell Photo Courtesy of Phil Miller Walt Reese, Hudson, NY	Biitig Collection Frank Blum, New Milford, CT Could be him Taken at Fonda_ in the 1950's Also could be Johnny Miller.	Courtesy of Eastern Hot Rodder Magazine via Joe Grossetti Tony Servo, [95] Schenectady, NY
Courtesy of Russ Blake Merwin Hommel, Saugerties, NY	McDowell Photo Courtesy of Ken Gypson Don Gutbro dt, Troy, NY	McDowell Photo Courtesy of Ken Gypson LaVerne Irving, North Baltimore, NY	Courtesy of Link Pettit Collection Joe Wunderlich, [37] West Sand Lake, NY
Ladabouche Collection Pete Peterson Albany, NY One of Pete's kids maybe.	McDowell Photo Courtesy of Phil Miller Bill Therrien, Selkirk, NY	McDowell Photo Courtesy of Phil Miller Frank Covel, Cohoes, NY Different Car	Courtesy of Bob Barber Al Green, Albany, NY Car is actually 3 1/7 and either Al is the driver or maybe a brother, Art is driving.
McDowell Photo Courtesy of Phil Miller Buck Rowe, South Bethlehem	Courtesy of Eastern Hot Rodder Magazine via Joe Grossetti Philip Shooski, [87] Saugerties, NY

George T. Morgan Photo Courtesy of Roger Liller A Pete Winnie car that gives evidence this was still in the dirt surface era.	Joe Messina Photo Collection Courtesy of Roger Liller A car Bob Devine often drove, with a young fan.	Bob McDowell Photo Courtesy of Martin South Tom McGrath, neighbor and friend of the great Billy Boo -from Pawling, NY.
Ed Ryan Photo Collection Courtesy of Roger Liller Stretch Van Steenberg is cropped up in front of Dennis Prosper [55] and Mark Mattice [99].	Courtesy of Arnie Ainsworth Everett Kneer, 1965 win.	Courtesy of Arnie Ainsworth A hobby class car with wild exhaust pipes. A Jon Van Vricken car is seen in the background.
Courtesy of Arnie Ainsworth Probably Charlie Centenaro.	Courtesy of Arnie Ainsworth Jocko Mutterer with the 10 late model that eventually was run at Malta by Tommy Corellis.	Courtesy of Arnie Ainsworth An very early version of the soon - to - be - legendary 5Xjr sedans.
Courtesy of Arnie Ainsworth An early Ernie Albright car at Pine Bowl. It was a forerunner to those familiar #834's to come later.	Courtesy of Arnie Ainsworth Another Everett Kneer Pine Bowl car.	Irv Conron Photo Courtesy of Don Gowie Link Pettit, in the Von Vricken RU21 losing a wheel.

Courtesy of Arnie Ainsworth
Howie Westervelt leads Stretch Van Steenberg.

Link Pettit Collection
Action shot of a feature start. We need help with who these cars are.

AMEC Website Photo
Pete Winnie T-bones a five window Ford coupe as the car 66 looks for room. This also might be Route 66 Speedway.

Illustrated Speedway News Photo Courtesy of Roger Liller
MIdgets at Pine Bowl.

Courtesy of Roger Liller
MIdgets at Pine Bowl.

Courtesy of Roger Liller
Here's an unidentifed car in later years.

DAN ODY'S X-47 PROJECT


Courtesy of Dan Ody Here's the car parked behind some apartment buildings, maybe in Troy.	Courtesy of Dan Ody Here's the car on the track, from the infield.	Courtesy of Dan Ody Here's the car winning its only race in 1964.	Courtesy of Dan Ody Here's the car all those years later.	Courtesy of Dan Ody A good shot on the Pine Bowl track.

Eastern Hot Rodder Magazine Courtesy of Joe Grossetti
The X-47 [left] has just missed a rolling Len Miron in this shot. It was good advertising for Len, though.

Ladabouche Photo
Ken Gypson had the Pine Bowl flagger's set at the Saratoga Museum.

Ladabouche Photo Ken Gypson Collection

PINE BOWL ACTION FROM DAN ODY'S 8 MM OLD SPEEDWAYS DVD'S

From Dan Ody's 8MM Old Speedways DVD's An early version of Joe Messina's 13.	From Dan Ody's 8MM Old Speedways DVD's Jerry Bullinger V6, and Ollie Palmer 4Jr..	From Dan Ody's 8MM Old Speedways DVD's Ollie Palmer in 4Jr..	From Dan Ody's 8MM Old Speedways DVD's Said to be George Proctor in the C1.	From Dan Ody's 8MM Old Speedways DVD's Messina leads George Proctor in the C1.
From Dan Ody's 8MM Old Speedways DVD's Backstretch action.	From Dan Ody's 8MM Old Speedways DVD's Action with the Brush Radio 27 [far right].	From Dan Ody's 8MM Old Speedways DVD's Dick Hansen trails the field in the 91. That won't last long.	From Dan Ody's 8MM Old Speedways DVD's Backstretch action.	From Dan Ody's 8MM Old Speedways DVD's Backstretch action with Joe Messina in pursuit.

Ed Ryan Photo Collection via Roger Liller
Perrennial star Joe Messina, in the Stoles 41, with flagger Rogerson and promoter Ed Ryan.

Courtesy of John Gallant
Here's an unidentifed car in later years.

Clip Art by Go Graph.Com

Dan Ody Collection Courtesy of Bob Miller Dusty and dangerous action as the virtually safety - free roadsters race at Pine Bowl before the advent of stock cars.	Dan Ody Collection Courtesy of Bob Miller Recognize this helmetless roadster dare devil ? It's Howie Westervelt, who started in these things.	Dan Ody Collection Courtesy of Bob Miller A roadster finishes a race. Check out the weird track wrecker truck.
Dan Ody Collection Courtesy of Bob Miller We got one here gettin' het up !	Dan Ody Collection Courtesy of Bob Miller Westervelt leads out of four.	Dan Ody Collection Courtesy of Bob Miller Howie Westervelt sits in his car at right, in front of a roadster that looks more like a sprint car.
	Dan Ody Collection Courtesy of Bob Miller Pine Bowl beats Uber by 68 years as it features this driverless car.

SOME TRACK LAYOUT AND FACILITY SHOTS

Courtesy of George Backstretch Hunt Pine Bowl turns one and two as seen from part of the spectator area.	Courtesy of George Backstretch Hunt Pine Bowl turn three as seen from part of the spectator area.	Courtesy of Dan Ody Pine Bowl concession stand and apparent crew.
Courtesy of Dan Ody The lovely ladies of the Pine Bowl beer stand.	Courtesy of Dan Ody More of of the Pine Bowl views.	Courtesy of Dan Ody Early Pine Bowl sign. [The later ones probably weren't much better].
Courtesy of Roger Liller Pine Bowl track novelty stand.	Courtesy of Joe Grossetti A look at a lot of the track from the turn one hillside seating.	Courtesy of Roger Liller 1958 "Jimmy Bellinger Race". Very blurry.
Courtesy of Roger Liller Post race crowd milling around in the infield. Looks like the 00 of Pete Winnie.	Courtesy of Dan Ody Old bleachers shot.	Courtesy of Dan Ody A good shot of the rather limited pit area.
Courtesy of Roger Liller Post race crowd milling around in the infield. An unlucky car 37 being towed away.	Courtesy of Hemmings Motor News A good look at the vantage the crowd had in this particular location. 4 is likely Carl Fink or Ollie Palmer; 57 Bill Therrien.	Courtesy of Joe Grossetti These kids watch a car lift the inside front wheel from their hillside seating.
Courtesy of Hemmings Motor News Somebody kinda got off the paved surface in turn four.	Courtesy of Roger Liller A good look at the Victory Lane area and this trophy presentation to an unknown winner.	Courtesy of Roger Liller A novelty stand. I love the clothing styles.

Link Pettit Photo Collection Courtesy of Link Pettit
Late 1950's points champs. From left: Doug Garrison. George Welch, Huck Spaulding, UNK, Carl Fink,
UNK, UNK, and Link Pettit [who looks to be 12, at least].

Courtesy of R. E. Webb Bill Webb with a Pine Bowl entry, in an early lineup.	Courtesy of R.E. Webb A Bowl win for Bill Webb.	Possible Bob McDowell Photo Courtesy of R..E. Webb Bill Webb posed shot.

SOME TRACK AERIAL AND VESTIGES SHOTS

Courtesy of Historic Aerials.com Pine Bowl remains, as seen in 2008.	Unknown Photobucket Source A similar view, farther up.	Courtesy of Historic Aerials.com Pine Bowl aerial from 1952.
Courtesy of Todd Moses Dirt bikes ride around Pine Bowl remains, as seen in 2012. [Probably just before they got shot at or something]	Courtesy of Todd Moses Dirt bikes ride around Pine Bowl remains, as seen in 2012. [Probably just before they got shot at or something]	Courtesy of Todd Moses Dirt bikes ride around Pine Bowl remains, as seen in 2012. [Probably just before they got shot at or something]

Courtesy of Roger Liller A Fred Tippin car.	Courtesy of Roger Liller Joe Messina [in car] and friends building one of his cars right in Troy, NY.	Probably Courtesy of Roger Liller Joe Messina [left] at Pine Bowl pits.
Courtesy of Ken Gypson Pete Peterson wrecks the P33.	Proctor Family Photo George Proctor's Country Dollar C1, a Pine Bowl car he shared with another driver.	Courtesy of Sam Barlow Jack Sleicher, in 1955.
Courtesy of Dave Dykes Billy Greco with a Sharkey Gaudiosi 44. Bill seems to have an unusual spoiler on the back.	Courtesy of Sam Barlow Jack Sleicher, in a different car 8, avoids a spinning car 14.	Courtesy of Sam Barlow Somebody in the Sharkey Gaudiosi car 44 enjoying a victory lap without Seymour in back.
Courtesy of Sam Barlow Gaudiosi car 4, said to be arriving at Pine Bowl.	Courtesy of Joe Grossetti via Sam Barlow The Harvey 62Jr, with Ken Goodermotte.	Atr Work Done by and Courtesy of Sam Barlow Sam Barlow captures many of the Pine Bowl's most inconic cars in this great drawing.

John Gallant Photovia Joe Grossetti
Ted Baldwin [47] avoids a rolling Jack Middleton.

DERN MURRAY PHOTOS
They Seem to Focus Around a Support Division Car 19 Jr.

All Photos Courtesy of Dern Murray What you can't see here is the 19Jr being rammed by car 30.	The 19Jr chases the 5Xjr of Mike Ehring as John Ody [07] spins into the infield.	The 19Jr still chases the 5Xjr of Mike Ehring as all hell breaks out in the infield.	The 19Jr on one of its many sojourns off the Pine Bowl racing surface.
The driver of the 19Jr appears to be having a conversation with the wary flagger.	The 19Jr spins into the infield with #67.	The 19Jr seems to like the infield.	The 19Jr spins into the infield with #90.
This might actually be before the previous shot. Looks like 19Jr and 90.	The 19Jr swerves to avoid car 1. Others include John Ody's 07 and Plainfield [CT] Stadium regular Don Spanzano in the $.	Pretty much the same cars, having left the 19Jr in avoidance mode.	The 19Jr [right] and an apparent team car #59. Looks like they are at home.

From PANDA23 Public Access
Carleton Hughes "The Friendly Milk Man". I had a nice conversation with him in September 0f 2019;

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